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| 2023-10-02 | 0 |
Yes we have so many unregulated agents who are applying for visit visas which doesn't allow you to work. The only option is to destroy identity documents and seek refugee status afresh . These unscrupulous agents very popular on Tiktok charge btwn 150k to 200k unrefundable.... That's the problem. The issue of canadians leaving their country is prob far fectched coz Those guys know how to set their economy to benefit their citizens and not immigrants
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| 2023-10-02 | 0 |
Some Kenyans or Africans for that matter are born believing tgat to make it you must go abroad. Not everyone is ever lucky. And please do background checks. Some social media posts are not true. Some are made with the aim of getting more people to join these agencies. Work hsrd in your country. Another thing, even if you are an expert they still treat as an african not onenof them. Money isn't everything- we leave it here. But go see the world if you can afford....?
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| 2023-10-02 | 0 |
As a Kenyan living in Switzerland, one of the most expensive countries in the world, i‘d share these thoughts: \n\nDo due deligence. Don’t leave your country without any proper structure of what you are going to do\n2. Once you are there, live within your means. Like for example why should i get a car and incur additional cost when there is cheaper reliable transport system. You must be financially disciplined to be able to survive here.\nAs a matter of fact, I am a PhD student, in the lowest salary bracket, but I am far much financially more stable and liquid than I was as a high school teacher. \nSo do your due deligence and be disciplined. And people should stop generalising stuff because they screwed up somewhere
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| 2023-10-02 | 1 |
Lynn I as Irene what I can say is that every country and continent is good to live in or stay for a certain duration.\nAll what matters is :\n1. Do you have legal documents to allow you there?\n2. Do you have skills to boost your smooth stay? \n3. What took you to that country?\n\nWhy am I saying this!\nBecause a lot of people leave their countries because they are desperate money, hence they make quick wrong decisions. Some don't even do research
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| 2023-10-02 | 0 |
Can Kenyans Atleast not be naive and do background checks and confirm before leaving the country . If the deal is too good think twice .
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| 2023-10-02 | 1 |
Lyn kenya is good, very good. People leave Kenya coz they are no jobs. Infact if there were jobs here, believe me, Kenyans couldn't leave their country. Majority who have succeeded to leave and are making it there, all are coming back to invest here coz we love our country. I wish things could change to make our country conducive to everyone. We love Kenya
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| 2023-10-02 | 2 |
Lynn some of these people say it is a trap but if you ask them why they are still in Canada, they won't tell you. He left Canada and was back after 7 years. Why not buy the properties in his country. Why go back to Canada to buy those properties? For some reason I feel bad that those who have gone have found a way of discouraging those who aspire to be there yet themselves don't want to leave. I am yet to meet a Kenyan in the streets of Kenya who will tell me that he/she came back because Canada, US, or Canada is a trap. They all say that in the streets of Canada. And those who come back, benefit a lot from the knowledge and money they made while in Canada,US, Australia, or UK. I think it's too much now.
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| 2023-10-01 | 0 |
Stay Happy in our Country.????...I think.UAE is the best place to leave safely in whole world ????????????????????????????????????
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| 2023-10-01 | 0 |
Montreal has drastically changed since the pandemic for the worst. I know its not as bad as Vancouver and Toronto, but it’s facing similar issues. I’m ready to leave the city (montreal) and move in the country side.
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| 2023-09-27 | 0 |
Im waiting moment to leave this country ASAP.
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| 2023-09-26 | 0 |
Canada has its pros and cons like any other country, but to those who are whining that they regret moving here, you have the option to leave anytime, nobody’s keeping you here. You won’t be missed when you leave.\nIf you’re going to stay and enjoy the country then great, we’d like to have you.
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| 2023-09-25 | 0 |
My question is Ups and Downs is normal when you examine the history of any country. Then why leave the country? If you ever live in a developing country and see their problem you will find Canada better, at least it has something going good like good infrastructure, security, great companies to work for. Why you guys made me think that maybe you guys are spoil brat who just can't deal the struggle, and everything needs to be just perfect.
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| 2023-09-24 | 6 |
India really need to leave our country . I swear no one wants them here . It's not about racism , we have a serious housing problem a long with other stuff .
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| 2023-09-22 | 0 |
I don’t understand why canada is destroying their country \n\nIndia punjab is mess ..\n\nAtleast 20+ gangs operates in Punjab each gang has 500+ sharp shooters ….\n\nThey do extortion , kidnapping, killings , drugs etc\n\nWhen indian police trying to crackdown or eliminate these gangsters. They hide in india :..\n\nOr leave India … mostly boses of these gangs are not situated in India because of death threat from each other gangs\n\nCanada is stupid.. or using these criminals against India..,\n\nOtherwise there is no point
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| 2023-09-20 | 0 |
Chokor Millionaire, I don't agree absolutely with the blame on the government. At least from what I have seen in Ghana, people are starting businesses.\n\nI am going to say something I observed about Ghana. I found out that women, as usual, are more hard-working. I realised that the men don't have work because they are lazy or have too much pride. I have watched so many videos where so many business owners complain about the ineffectiveness and inefficiencies of the workers. They are not dedicated when they work for other people. I watched these business owners whose workers in the farms are mostly women, and they were very happy that women are easier to control and have good work ethics as opposed to men. The men prefer jobs where they don't use their energies such as Yahoo Yahoo boys, selling in shops where they don't touch anything or lift a finger.\n\nGrowing up, we knew that men were supposed to do the hard-working jobs in society. But these days, men like to idle around and touch nothing. The reasons being that the African culture teaches us that men are not supposed to do anything at home. They are supposed to be served by women. Then, instead of the men going out there to do the hard work and make the money, they wait around expecting cushy jobs that don't make them lift a finger.\n\nLook at China that you mentioned. These boys work absolutely hard. Even in the villages. Look at Muslim countries. You will never see women working on the streets. The men are even the ones who cook the food on the streets and sell. Check countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka. In Africa, most things are done by women.\n\nAll this japa that people are fighting for. Have we ever thought of the agenda of these people needing free and cheap labour? I came to realise that we stupid Africans don't yet understand. Our children eventually become strangers, and we remain just surrogate parents. Most of our children are never going back to Africa, and when they get to an age, they become like strangers to us. Whatever we say, they look at us like archaic. What then makes them Africans anyway. We have seen so many of them who barely know their countries of origin and have never ever been there. They do not know their relations. In fifty years' time, that generation has lost their roots, and was that our intentions initially? This all dawned on me recently with my children, and I feel absolutely dejected because they are not interested in our country. All my hard work is gone down the drain, and all that can happen is for us to leave our children behind and live like people who never had children in the first place. For now, most people see it like something to be proud of, and are happy to say ( my children live abroad). Africans are the most stupid people I know, and that is why we are always used for slave labour. Why are they all approving all these visas and allowing all these people to drown at sea? \n\nThese countries allow these fake visas deliberately because they drain African countries to enrich their own since they can't get the minerals easily these days.
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| 2023-09-19 | 0 |
You are very lucky to be so gorgeous and able to work/model/get sponsors to pay for your lifestyle, and not have to live in Canada. Canada as a whole, the Western capitalistic society, as a whole as become extremely greedy. The interest rates in the Western countries went down to almost 0%, causing all the capitalists to borrow this free-money and gobbled up all the real estate, and they now dictate the rental market. Corporations as well as individuals who bought real estate before 2010 used their equity and got into the real estate flip-game and ABNB, and they are all rich. And yet they still gouge renters because they can. I would also leave Canada. But I am stuck here because I am poor. Canada/Toronto will not change. Once you're used to eating filet mignon, you will never settle for meat loaf. These landlords will never lower their rents as long as they hold all the cards. 10 years from now, Canada's birth rate will be negative because people who pay $700,000 for 500sq ft condos do not have kids. Nor can they afford them.
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| 2023-09-19 | 0 |
I am a resident of Toronto for the past 11 years now. I moved here from Calgary because back then I had a better opportunity. I was an aspiring pastry chef. I landed in pretty stable and well paid job. I've already noticed the changes in city a few years before the pandemic. The drug addiction and mental health problem were already quite evident as injection sites were popping up around the cities including public parks. Then the pademic happened, it exposes the cracks in our society, some people are becoming selfish and intolerant. I lost my job due to the pandemic, it was very traumatic, I developed severe anxiety/depression. Luckily, i had some savings when it all happened. Fastforward, I've been working in the last 2 years now but I can no longer find the same job and pay I used to have. Most companies are now more ruthless. They let go employees any minute as soon as they felt the business is slow. There's no more job security. The only reason why I am surviving is because I am living in the same apartment since i moved here. However, my new neighbours who just moved in are paying twice as much. I've been attempting to leave the city but that would mean that i would be paying at least twice of my current rent and there aren't much opportunities elesewhere. I honestly felt trapped in my current situation but I am still grateful that I am still better off than many people who are already living on the edge. Sadly, the situation is only getting worst according to many analysts. I think the country is at a breaking point in many aspects.
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| 2023-09-19 | 0 |
Canada is capitalist country. People come here to work and save some money to built for our future. If it’s not for you leave go somewhere else….
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| 2023-09-18 | 0 |
I just don’t understand why they littering? They idiots, or marginals. \nI think they are lazy garbage and Government must force them to clean after themselves and send to work.\nI immigrated to country and had three jobs, why these lazy cannot work?! \nSmart people gonna leave this liberal garbage, and I think to leave, don’t want my family be surrounded by these marginals.\nPolice must take them away.
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| 2023-09-17 | 0 |
Why does people even immigrant outside in a herd, Indian are leaving their country it's sad, all thanks to our shitty govt, they're not resolving anything. We're literally hopeless. People loves to mock us. Why people making other countries crowded, they'd of course hate it. Canada is called second Punjab, don't u think they feel bad about that? Canada's govt should do something about that and our govt too, so that people don't feel like leaving India. I hate it when they do it, Just like when people from Bengal illegally enter my state Assam. So hopeless.
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| 2023-09-14 | 0 |
Canada is a country that finds intelligence and skills threatening in the workplace. They don't want people to outshine them. On discrimination, even Canadians trained abroad are considered inadequate, as if they had never worked before. The country is broken and getting even more broken, that even Canadians that have means are leaving and want to leave.
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| 2023-09-14 | 0 |
We need to stop them leaders from killing and torturing people and forcing them to leave. Obama been done told them stop killing your people and then they won’t be forced to go leave they country
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| 2023-09-13 | 0 |
Too good explanation, every Indian should watch it before leaving the country\n\nBravo sadarji??
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| 2023-09-13 | 0 |
The Canadian dream is for Justin Trudeau to leave politics and the country.
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| 2023-09-12 | 0 |
Want a scoop? I'm born here, in Canada. My father and grand father did, too. I, among others, feels its time to quit this country for what it has become in the last decade. The world is about to see that many Canadians leaving Chinada.
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| 2023-09-11 | 0 |
Canada needs to stop this madness or students who come to this country needs to leave their madness behind and learn to behave like educated human beings…
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| 2023-09-10 | 0 |
Having visited Nairaland and dated a Nigerian lady, I can tell that Nigeria is not heaven on earth. The country has substantial problems related to violence, corruption, poverty, and absence of basic infrastructure. A reason exists to explain why thousands of Nigerians want to leave their native country for the west. And, the few who are successful are not in any rush to return!
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| 2023-09-07 | 0 |
What’s with Hispanic culture and fucking up a country and then just leaving, how could you give no fucks about your country
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| 2023-09-07 | 0 |
There is too much tax in canada and the return of benefits is very low comparwd to other developed advanced countries \n\nThe education and health sector is the worst \n\nPublic transport too expensive and not available in many areas \nAnd i am talking of grater toronto area \n\nAnd southwest ontario \nThe heart of canada \n\nIf we move slightly west or north of this area \n\nGod knows how these people are coping with that \n\nIt was easier for them to live away from cities \nBecauss of cheap land and housing \nAnd cheap fuel prices \nThey have their own cars and it was very affordable to drive long distance \n\nThe goods were not expensive \nSo overall the did not need \nPublic transport in many areas \n\nBut now with increasing housing coloniesb and infrastructure \nWith increasing population \n\nAnd increasing car and fuel prices \nBank loan interests \n\nPublic transport is needed and needed at affordable prices \n\nMobile phone networks \nInternet \nIs expensive too expensive \n\nIf you earn good you dont feel it \nBut low income and part timers \nStudents feel the high rate \n\n\nAllowing skilled people especially in health sector education sector and office administration is a must \n\nHospitals dont have the staff \nDont have doctors \nClinics dont have doctors and staff \n\nU dont find a family doctor for months or even longer \nAnd \nEven if find one \nHe stays not for long and leaves \n\nIf u r sucking taxes like blood sucking parasites \nThis is not going to last very long \n\nU have to provide if u take high rate of taxes \nU cannot let people wait for hours in emergency \n\nFor months to get an specialiat appointment \nFor months to get a medical test like ct scan ultrasound etc \n\nEven under developed countries \nAre providing the option for health tests and private treatment \nWhich is even paid by governments to certains extent \n\nI am totally disappointed in canada as developed country \n\nLow salaries \nExploiting immigrants as cheap labor \n\nStudents as cheap labor and rent payers \n\nEducation expensive \n\nHealth care almost not available \n\nBank interest rate high \n\nIts an bank interest binding economy\n\nWhich doesnt want the people tonget out of the financial cycle of paying interest and mortgages\n\nIn other words you have mortgaged ur life ur everthing to the financial institutes \n\nAnd u think u are free and rich\nBut are a slave \nA robot\nWho is controlled by the big sharks of the industry \nAnd the government
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| 2023-09-07 | 0 |
He's complaining but not leaving. He's had more than enough time to return back home.\n\nContext is always important when taking advice. Canada like anywhere in the world isn't for everyone. Yet people are moving there from all over the world like US, India, UK, Asia etc. \n\nMany of us are not after money, we just want a working system and security, I don't want to live in a country with fear for my life.
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| 2023-09-06 | 0 |
Until you experience the horrors they have gone through don’t throw stones in glass houses the immigration system has been broken for years if people waited until it’s their time no one would realistically get through since there is a 20 year backlog and children who were brought here 20 years ago have been thrown out because they themselves were still not approved a decade or more later. Part of the issue is red state lax gun laws allowing cartels easy access to heavy machinery that can be taken back across the border. Do you really think corruption isn’t running all the way to the top and that the American government has not helped worsen the issues when any of these countries want control of their own fossil fuel. Consider how many rich people get to jump in line or border patrol on both sides being able to keep out legal crossings if you can’t pay their fees. If you fight the cartel military or government you will find yourself dead imprisoned and or tortured and if they are fleeing to save their family and willing to leave their whole life behind to go to a country whose language they don’t speak do you really think they can walk all the way to the border wait in a single file line hope they can request asylum and then wait 40 years to maybe get a call back for a hearing these ppl are forced into a rock and a hard place and for the majority of American politics most politicians have no interest on really figuring out a comprehensive and compassionate system to help get immigrants out of dangerous situations America barely cares about it’s homeless citizens veterans mentally or physically Ill every country is having serious issues because often leaders are really only looking out for themselves
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| 2023-09-06 | 0 |
its simple if you dont like the country, you should leave... DONT DEFAME THE COUNTRY.... CANADAIAN NATIVES ARE HAPPY THERE,... its INDIANS who are dying to be in CANADA
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| 2023-09-06 | 0 |
I Agree with this guy i realy wish if they give me the passport and i leave to anther country .
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| 2023-09-06 | 0 |
I was born here and I feel sorry for those that leave their countries to come to Canada. Canada is basically a banana republic. If you travel out of the major cities in any direction 200 km, you will realize that Canada is 3rd world. Its people live a trailer park life. Canada is a scam.
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| 2023-09-05 | 0 |
Go fix your fuqed up country and leaves ours ALONE!
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| 2023-09-05 | 0 |
Some people get this immigration matter all wrong ?\nNo matter how desperate one might be willing to migrate to Canada, US or any other developed country, we mustn't deny the fact that everyone on earth has their destined country of manifestation, the same God that asked Abraham to leave his father's land in order to access his blessing and fulfil destiny was the same God who asked Isaac not to travel down to Egypt (Gen. 26, read if you care).\n\nAbraham's blessing was in foreign land and he needed to migrate to access the blessing while Isaac needed to stay back in the land where God will bless him and that's where he prospered.\n\nNow imagine Isaac rushing down to Egypt for green pastures without listening to the word of God who promised to bless him.
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| 2023-09-05 | 0 |
Big mouth. Leave leave, leave. Go back to Nigeria. He regrets moving to Canada but he doesn't regret receiving the money from the Canadian people. He doesn't regret to eat, to use the Canadian system. \nHe thinks that's a fun thing. Do the same things he used to do when he was in Nigeria. You migrate to a country therefore you have to go by their rules, by their laws. They won't change the way of their life for you. They won't change their laws for you. Big mouth. What was he thinking?\nSo he prepared to come here to scam people, to do the same shit. And, if they accept, for him, this will be the Canada he wished.\nGo back to where he comes from, man. Guy like him should'nt even have the thought to travel or even travel.. Because, he is really dumb.
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| 2023-09-05 | 0 |
Leave then. If it doesn't offer what you want. Leave, leave, leave.\nThis is their country so they live the way they want. If you don't like it, they don't retain you.
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| 2023-09-04 | 0 |
It’s a sad situation but Americans are having a hard time with finding stable work, housing and health care is even worse for those who need it but can’t afford it. They need to fix their own country and leave US alone!
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| 2023-09-04 | 0 |
Canada won't be my choice in leaving my country, the west even in consideration but leaving the country isn't mostly due to financial struggles, it has something to do with the future and avoidance of insecurities and restrains due to the government in Nigeria in particular. Nigeria looks like all hope is going to be lost and no one wants to get trapped when that time comes, when they see themselves with alot of potential ahead of them. Nigeria represents stagnation, lack of progress and a strong resistance to innovation.\n\nThe feeling of being mistreated in your own home, abandoned, restrained, suppressed and deprived of the basic necessities in life. That is the reason why they all, including myself wants to JAPA
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| 2023-09-04 | 0 |
This is profoundly unfair review and comparison. How many in Nigeria receiving $1000/month salary? When did “time is money” became unacceptable? Maybe that’s one of the reasons the country not prospering because many are lazy and don’t perform their job? Where in this world the system pays you more money than you can handle? Why not give a specific example of that “systemic discrimination/racism”. Why is wanting to know your performance at work discriminatory? Why not be honest that there’s different approach to healthcare professionals in Canada? My question is why he’s not going back to Nigeria? People that are doing VERY WELL in Nigeria don’t ever think of leaving the country. They send their kids to study abroad and pay huge for that. We’ve been in Canada for over 10yrs now and no regrets.
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| 2023-09-04 | 0 |
Oh and don’t forget that one particular province still has a sizeable proportion that wants to secede. Toronto does not represent the rest of the country. Quebec has a first right of refusal if the person doesn’t speak French. But usually Ottawa deports the ones that have integrated perfectly into Quebec society. Ottawa doesn’t want Quebec to leave and thus has played the immigration game to increase its supporters via new arrivals. There has always been two countries in Canada, and the English speaking one has always tried to drown out the French speaking one. For over 150 years, French speaking immigrants were banned from entering the country. You can thank the American revolution political refugees for that.
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| 2023-09-03 | 0 |
Ive never heard the reason they're fleeing their country and leaving everything behind but a backpack. Whats the REAL problem?
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| 2023-09-03 | 0 |
Beware of the single narrative. He’s speaking from his own experience, but it’s not the same as everybody’s. I’ve lived in Canada now for 4 years…got my citizenship this year. I lived in Nigeria for the 10 years prior to moving to Canada, and I also schooled and lived in the UK before that, so I speak with a wealth of diverse experiences. \n\nBefore you move to Canada or anywhere else for that matter, do the following:\n\n1. Research the country you’re moving to…what jobs are in demand, how that aligns with your qualifications…if you need to recertify or retrain in a different field. Many people move here thinking “oh I was a bank manager in Nigeria, so I’ll move here and become a bank manager”. It doesn’t work that way. The streets of Canada are littered with qualified medical doctors who drive Uber because they didn’t understand how difficult it would be to be certified to practice here.\n\n2. Find role models who are living the life you aspire to, or who have made similar moves and seek advice or guidance, and learn what they did right/wrong. Don’t just assume because your friend moved here, you can also move here and live the same life. You don’t share the same life experiences, history or have the same network.\n\n3. Before you immigrate physically, you have to immigrate mentally…be in the right mindset to live in a new country, understand their culture and learn to adapt. If you’re expecting to leave Nigeria and move to Canada to live a Nigerian lifestyle with “owambe” parties every weekend, or having 4 cars and 3 housemaids, then you’re still living in Nigeria mentally. Even Justin Trudeau does not drive 4 cars.\n\nI work in tech, so I knew that with God’s grace I’d find a way to succeed here. My wife worked in a Nigerian bank, and was able to transition to tech after we arrived here. Our combined annual income is roughly $500k, and we both work less than 40 hours a week, and I believe God will continue to bless us. I have easily 20 or 30 friends and colleagues who moved within a year or two of each other, and everyone is doing fine and working in tech jobs paying 6-figures. \n\nDon’t be discouraged by people’s failures and hardships. With the right planning and mindset, you can achieve your goals in any country. Reach out to people on LinkedIn, build a network and ask for advice (constructively)…many like us are more than willing to help.
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| 2023-09-03 | 1 |
Feeling ashamed seeing the condition of the people of my country...begging, protesting to leave their own country , selling their land ...its all because of population...and it will be forever like this.....india really needs a ww3 to reduce its population to half..
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| 2023-09-03 | 0 |
All this are garbage if you really know the situation of Nigeria right now, you will never discourage anyone from leaving Nigeria, \n\nNigeria economy has been destroyed by APC and will never recover in the next 100 years, inflation has skyrocketed, insecurity, zero job opportunities, you are talking about Canada what about Nigerians that Are traveling to Arab countries I live in Dubai for 5 years despite the hardship it’s still far better than Nigeria
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| 2023-09-03 | 0 |
stay and fight for the country you were born in. even when times are tough i never had to leave canada. by all means leave.
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| 2023-09-02 | 0 |
As an older person who migrated decades ago after protesting in my old country, I encourage young people below 45 to FIGHT for your countries. Fight bad goverments. 7 billion people on the planet cannot move to the few western countries that seem to work and appear attractive on the surface, it’s not possible. The taxpayers in those countries are feeling it. Look at the folks sleeping on the floor in NY! The homeless citizens don’t have places to sleep but politicians are lodging new border crossing migrants in hotels at taxpayers expense, creating resentment! \n\nFight those oppressing you in your countries. Black America “fought” to eliminate Jim Crow so we can even move here. Black America and the White allies who struggled for civil rights ARE the reason the west has even been tolerant of the amount of immigration in the last 40 years! \n\nThere is no peace without a fight… even after the civil rights fights including the million man March 60 years ago? by MLK, the struggle against racism continues. \n\nHe left because of his children but will find out in 25 years time that they will want to connect with their roots even after succeeding in the West. \n\nYoung folks, take African, Latin American, Caribbean and Asian countries back from oppressive greedy corrupt rulers to reduce the need to leave our places of birth. I “fought” oppressive corrupt regimes with other like minded folks when I was younger before leaving! I wish we were more that were interested in protesting! Now folks are giving up without a serious protest, distracted by entertainment and the illusion of utopian countries which is not true. They find out too late! \n\nWestern politicians and governments need to stop cooperating with oppressive governments in these areas if they truly want to tackle immigration. Freeze their stolen loot like we did to the Russian oligarchs, force them to return the loot into their various economies and create good middle class jobs! \n\nThe west works because most work is assembly line in nature, glorifies slavery. A doctor has a target of about 15 to 20 patients to see per day and rushes you out of his office because the corporation he works for only cares about money and KPIs! You really aren’t allowed to interact with patients and provide personalized service. A pharmacist has to fill anything between 200 to 350 prescriptions, give a certain number of immunizations and see a certain No of patients per day. There is no time for niceties! A corporate professional May work remotely but has to deliver on so many projects he is up till 10pm and only gets up to eat. We have beautiful homes, drive nice cars etc but MUST work like the clock in an assembly line fashion! Most of us pay so much of our income as taxes we end up with less than 70% as paychecks! Things aren’t always what they seem!
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| 2023-09-01 | 0 |
Imagine being a doctor, lawyer, or engineer in your own country, living a comfortable life, earning a comfortable wage, and you naively leave all that because you think you'll move to Canada thinking you will live the Canadian dream of a better life. Almost all immigrants have a way better job in their country but they come to Canada still. It's so sad that immigrants believe these silly lies. Canada is hard to live in and it is expensive! Why leave your country??? Stay in your country and stop coming to Canada thinking it is easy, it is not easy, it is hard people are suffering and need to work 2-3 jobs to survive! Stay in your country!
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| 2023-09-01 | 0 |
How bad can it be where these people come from that they are so desperate to leave their countries?!?! Spain invented these countries. Why don't they take in a few million!?!? Where is the Mexican army to stop them...
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